Top Strategies to Build Relationships on LinkedIn

Phyllis Khare:
I'm so excited to be live again with the Social Media Pulse Academy community, and I'm thrilled to be joined today by my friend Judi Hays. Judi and I go way back, so this conversation will be like two old friends getting together. First, let me tell you a little about her. Judi is a Forbes contributor and the author of a fantastic book called Elevate, Expand, Engage: A Refreshingly Different Approach to Winning on LinkedIn, and I want to focus on that "refreshingly different" part in our conversation. She also does workshops, training, seminars, and consulting, and she has clients, so she has boots on the ground for those of you who are social media managers for LinkedIn clients. We're going to get into all of that today. Welcome, Judi. I'm so happy to have you here.

Judi Hays:
Phyllis, I feel like we roomed together right before everything shut down, in San Diego for Social Media Marketing World.

Phyllis Khare:
Yes, I remember. And there's a whole bunch of things we want to talk about today. But I also remember that when you were looking at all the opportunities in front of you many years ago, you decided to focus on LinkedIn. Back then, everybody was all about Facebook, Facebook, Facebook. Can you explain why you did that?

Judi Hays:
It was interesting, because I've always worked in business development, aside from when I worked in the hospitality industry. When I started on my own, I signed up for Social Media Manager School, and that was pivotal, because I learned about all the platforms. It came down to which one I really embraced and which one I was good at. I picked LinkedIn because nobody was doing it. Back then it was a job search site. I said, you know what, I'm going to really learn this platform and teach others how to use it. By claiming that niche, I separated myself from being a general digital marketer or social media manager and focused on LinkedIn.

Let's be clear, though: LinkedIn is the gateway drug. For clients, the gateway to getting on a social platform was LinkedIn. Of course they're going to have a website, and email, and other marketing tools, but LinkedIn was the entry point. That's how I got there. I'm just thrilled people have finally found LinkedIn after all these years. It's like, welcome.

Phyllis Khare:
You've been on LinkedIn longer than most people, in a dedicated way. I would be over on Facebook and tag you, and think, she's not going to answer this, because she's over on LinkedIn. It's like walking down the street to a different house and knocking on the door. Everybody's view of LinkedIn has changed in the last few years, and you have a particular insight into that. A lot of people think LinkedIn is just Facebook on a different platform. How should people actually view LinkedIn?

Judi Hays:
I came up with an easy way to explain it, because I'm really visual. Think of LinkedIn as a virtual event. LinkedIn is the venue, and the people you invite to this venue are your network. Those are your guests. You may know some of them, and you may not, because a lot of different people are coming. What you serve them, your choice of appetizers and wine and all that, is the content you give them. It has to be relevant. If your audience is all vegans and you're serving sliced beef, you've lost them. Then, when conversations start among people, that's the engagement, and that's where the magic happens. I know a lot of people on LinkedIn I haven't met in real life, and I feel like I know them. Understanding LinkedIn as a virtual event helps people see what it is.

I just posted something about this. Facebook is like the casual barbecue, where your family and friends are and you just throw stuff out there. Instagram is stylish, inspirational, and visual. TikTok is addictive, and people can't leave it. Pinterest is a giant, inspirational billboard. LinkedIn is what you would do in a professional setting. So ask yourself, would I say this if I went to a professional event? Would I say this in front of everybody, including people who don't know who I am? If the answer is no, then don't put it on LinkedIn.

Phyllis Khare:
That's a great gate for posting on LinkedIn. On other social platforms we have gates like: is it entertaining, is it informative, is it emotional? On LinkedIn, the gate is: would I say this in a business setting? You pause and think about it, and then decide whether to post. And inside LinkedIn there are all these different ways to make a post. It used to be text, an image, or a link. Now you've got LinkedIn Live, articles, pages, and Creator Mode, so you have to decide how you sit inside LinkedIn. You've worked with a lot of clients over the years. How do you determine which types of posts are appropriate for a business?

Judi Hays:
In the business space, you're working with other businesses, and at the end of the day, people hire people. They have to kind of like you and know who you are. You have to become visible, and then you have to build credibility. The credibility comes from how you engage on the platform.

Commenting is a great way to dip your toes into LinkedIn. Identify a couple of people who are posting great content that you're learning from and that people are engaging with, and add a comment that adds to the conversation. It's like being at an event where a bunch of people are gathered around somebody, and you meander over and listen in, and then you offer something. It's not about you, it's about the conversation, and that's a great way to start building credibility, because your profile is connected to what you do on LinkedIn. People may look at your profile and think, who is this person who's saying some good stuff?

That's a way to dip a toe in, and then when you feel comfortable, you put out your own content. That was always a source of angst for me. What do I say? People are going to think whatever. So I keep a list of the questions clients and prospects ask, and that makes great content. People always ask me how to download their database, which is my favorite tip, so I created a video. Other content ideas: I have a great stack of books on my table, really great content from people I admire, so let me share that. I listened to a podcast the other day, and here's what I learned from it. Here's a colleague I want to celebrate because she just got certified. Pay it forward. There's so much you can do, but don't put stuff out there just because you feel you have to check the box and post something today. That's just noise, and it's annoying.

Phyllis Khare:
I love this, and I want to bookmark it, because I want everyone to see that you can set up a doc anywhere and start putting in the questions you get from your clients. Then when you go to create content, you have something to guide you, instead of posting things all the time and not knowing whether they're noise or important. This ties into your book, which I really want to talk about. Elevate, Expand, Engage came out in 2021, in the middle of all the fun stuff, on November 21, 2021, so a year ago.

Judi Hays:
Yes, I can't believe it.

Phyllis Khare:
It was a long time coming, because you had been building on it for a while. Our conversation today is about strategies for building relationships on LinkedIn, and you have an architecture that I think is wonderful for people to follow. First is Elevate, which is all about you and your brand. Then Expand, which is making and building connections. And then Engage, where you're putting your opinions, knowledge, and experience in plain view. A lot of people get that backwards. They jump into LinkedIn and start with the Engage part, and then they have to go back and fix their profile and their connections. Can you talk about that process?

Judi Hays:
If you can visualize a Venn diagram, or what I call a three-legged stool, the thing you put your bun on is the strategy. That's the seat. If there's no seat, what are you sitting on? So you have to start with strategy. A lot of people go into LinkedIn without understanding the rules of the room, and then it doesn't work, or they say it's too much work. I hear that a lot, and it's because they don't have a strategy.

The strategy might be that you want to invest in your career, because LinkedIn is really a career and search platform. Maybe you want to find leads for your business. Maybe you want to get seated on some boards or in some corporations, so you want to present yourself. There are a lot of different reasons to be on LinkedIn. So the first and foremost question is: why am I on LinkedIn, and what do I want to get out of it? That determines your network, and everything you do in LinkedIn is impacted by your network. Think of that virtual event again. If you invite a bunch of random people who don't speak your language and come from places you've never been, there's nothing relevant going on. So you want to be very selective about your network.

The first part is elevating who you are. This is my personal brand, my professional executive image, and how I want to be perceived. It's not your resume. Most people just slap their resume on LinkedIn, but your resume is what you've done in the past. LinkedIn is how you aspire to be perceived. It's aspirational, because you can say what you want. That's the first leg: your brand.

The next leg is the network, where you expand. In the beginning, it's flattering to get all these invitations, and then you realize, oh my gosh, that's a fake profile, or there's no relevance there. Whoever you're connected to determines what shows up in your feed, so this leg is about fine-tuning and curating your network. Like a collection of anything, you pick the things you like, and you can be selective.

The third leg is engagement, and I think that's where the magic happens. You and I met online, then we met in person, and now here we are, years later. I could say we're friends for life, and it's because we built trust. We've referred things to one another, and that's where the magic happens. Ninety-five percent of my business in the five years I've been in business has been referrals. These legs all work together, because if you don't have one, everything is upside down.

Phyllis Khare:
That's a very important point. Just like we had a gateway question for what to post on LinkedIn, you also have a series of questions you ask yourself before you connect with somebody. In the beginning, like most of us, I said yes, yes, yes. I'm in a local environment, so if anyone local connected with me, I said yes. But after a while I realized I needed to fine-tune this. Using your word, who I'm connected to should enhance my ability to have meaningful conversations. Does the person include people in my industry that I look up to or want to have conversations with? There are lots of questions you can set for yourself. I also want to make the point that this is a community for social media managers and agency owners. Some are on LinkedIn to promote their own business, and both groups are helping their clients in that space. But all of this information is true no matter which side of that equation you're on.

Judi Hays:
Right. And I'm going to throw out a statistic based on my experience on LinkedIn: when you post something, approximately 10 percent of your network will see it in their feed. Then what happens to that post, in whatever the algorithm of the month is, will affect how far it goes, and it's about who engages with it. People don't remember what you post. When I have a post that does really well, with high engagement and visibility, I can post it again, and different people will see it and engage with it. It's like throwing a ball. If you're bowling, you hit the ball down the alley the same way every time. If you're like me, it ricochets off everything. You can do the same post in a different format. I like to test things and play with it on LinkedIn. It's a fun platform, if you're in the B2B space. But most people don't take the time to do the strategy, and then they get disappointed or frustrated.

Phyllis Khare:
That's good advice for all social platforms, but especially LinkedIn, because it's so connected to your business and your reputation and how you're viewed in the world. And that 10 percent view rate is actually kind of high compared with some social platforms. Facebook doesn't get that much reach these days. That brings up the whole question of personal profiles in Creator Mode or not, and pages. As a social media manager, how would I decide where to put my time and attention?

Judi Hays:
First and foremost, if you're starting out on LinkedIn and you have fewer than 2,500 connections, I would not recommend going into Creator Mode yet. The default in Creator Mode is Follow. Whenever somebody invites you to connect, they automatically follow you regardless. That's why I'm less likely to accept a connection if the person doesn't meet the criteria I'm looking for. I'll say, I appreciate you reaching out, I'm at my limit, so follow me, let's engage, and we'll take it from there.

Phyllis Khare:
How would a social media manager decide whether to just work with their own profile or to build a company page for their business and the work they do for clients?

Judi Hays:
If you have your own business, even a small one, there's no reason why you shouldn't have a company page. LinkedIn is one of the top-ranking sites for credibility. Google your name right now, and your LinkedIn profile is going to show above your website. A company page gives you more SEO juice, and it also makes you real. How many times have you engaged with somebody and they've got this little gray avatar, and you wonder, what company is that? Is it even real? A company page validates you. It can also brag about you. My company page can say all the great things about its CEO, who is me. If I say it myself, it's, oh gosh, she's bragging again. But my company page can say our CEO just got published.

On the profile itself, there are a couple of things that are imperative. Number one is the top of the fold. Back in the day, when newspapers were on the newsstand, the top of the fold was the headline that got you to grab the paper. Your headline, at least the first 40 to 60 characters, is what goes everywhere. It's on mobile, and it shows up when you post or do anything on LinkedIn, so make it really clear what you do. Don't waste it on the default of your job title and company. Look at other people's headlines and ask: does it explain who my network is, what I do, and what's different about me? You have about 200 characters to work with, but the first 40 to 60 are the most important.

The other thing is your photo. You don't want to be cut out of something, or have an animal in there, or some other distraction. It can't be a logo. It should be you smiling. If you say you don't have a professional photo, guess what? Phyllis, if I snapshot you right here, that would make a great profile photo, probably better than what you have up right now. Then there's the banner behind you. Imagine if someone gave you a billboard on the highway that hundreds of thousands of people pass every day, and you had nothing on it. That's a blank banner. Use it for messaging, and use it to clarify what you do. Then there's contact info. Make sure your website is there and your email is there. I use a Google Voice phone number for privacy, and I use it to screen calls. Make sure the top of the fold is really built out.

Then the middle section: the About section. As I said before, and I just posted an article about this, it's not about you. It's not your CV. Nobody cares about you.

Phyllis Khare:
I love the emphasis on that, because it's the most important thing, especially in business. It's all about the customer and what the audience needs, and what you can provide for them. You are in service to your audience. Every time you say that, I want to shoot off fireworks.

Judi Hays:
There have been polls on this. Very few people are going to read your About section, but if they do, give them something of value. Demonstrate what's in it for them. It's the most underutilized section of the profile, and I gave examples of what you can do in my monthly newsletter, along with resources. Your About section is really about the reader.

Phyllis Khare:
We'll post the link to that article in the comments. Judi has a ton of articles and posts, and I want to hook you up with all of that. I also want to tell the funny story about the name pronunciation feature, because a lot of people still don't realize it can be used. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Judi Hays:
These are little gems on LinkedIn. Make sure you do the basics, and then add to them. I just spoke with a client yesterday whose name is definitely a challenge. I told him, here's what you can do with that. You have 10 seconds, so it's a quick "what do you want people to know" elevator pitch. You can also add a Cover Story if you're comfortable with video. I just updated mine because now I have shorter hair. It can be something people don't know about you, or something you want to share. I put my tip of the month there: download your database. All those little nuances are where you start to really embrace the profile. But at the bare bones, so many people don't have a header image. They don't have an informative headline, and their photo needs work.

Phyllis Khare:
Everyone can go and look at Judi's profile as something to model. Look at how she has things set up and organized, and then do the work. I'm a big believer in finding a good model if you're lost about what to do. A viewer mentioned that the barbecue analogy for Facebook is a very clear one, and another said that Judi has taught them a lot about visibility and credibility building through her book. Another viewer said they definitely have to work on commenting more on posts. That's one of those habits. In my experience, I can read something and immediately have an opinion pop into my head, and then I have to filter it. Is this helpful? Does it add to the conversation? Is it service-focused, or is it all about me? About 60 percent of those impulses, I decide not to comment. That makes the ones where I do comment feel good, even though I'm not commenting on everything I could.

Judi Hays:
You hit it right there. One thing I do is use the Save feature a lot. It's under the three dots. When there's something I want to add insight to, and I like the conversation but I'm not in a place to respond right now, I save it. The second thing is that when you comment, a notification goes out to your network that you just commented on this post. So if you say something, everybody sees it. It's like standing in the town square. Make sure it's something you're comfortable with everyone seeing. As I said, people learn from comments, so use them to educate, inform, and add to the conversation.

The third thing is don't waste the effort on likes and reactions. Unless I know somebody well, I'll do something aside from the thumbs up, because that's what I call a passive response. It adds no value whatsoever. If you're going to add value, add to the conversation itself.

Phyllis Khare:
Can you go back to the three dots and explain that process? The three dots are super valuable in so many places, but a lot of people don't understand what's available.

Judi Hays:
Sure, and there's actually a wonderful thing there, "save for later." I do that all the time, because either somebody says something I find really valuable and I want to come back to it, or I want to add something to it. I also save polls. I have a collection, and I'm going to publish a compendium of all the polls related to LinkedIn, probably at the end of the year when it's downtime. By the way, my logo has the three dots, because there's always something wonderful under them. Sometimes they're called the kebab menu.

When you're looking at your home news feed, you can sort it by Top, which is what the algorithm thinks is important to you, and you can take that for what it's worth, or you can hit the caret and sort it by Recent. I look at LinkedIn on different devices throughout the day, and that's why the Save feature is important. There might be something I see that I want to add to, but I get distracted by a shiny object and then wonder, where did that post go? I don't even remember who posted it. The three dots are also where you can fine-tune your feed. You can unfollow somebody who is really annoying or posting too much. Don't disconnect from them, just unfollow them. You can copy the link to the post if you want to share it, you can save it for later, or you can say you don't want to see this, maybe because it's a topic you're not interested in. Use the three dots to fine-tune your feed. I'm not interested in seeing recipes in my feed, for example.

Phyllis Khare:
Where do you find all of those saved posts once you've saved them?

Judi Hays:
On your home page, on the left rail, where it shows your name and who's viewed your profile, click "My items." There you'll see your jobs, your projects, and your saved posts.

Phyllis Khare:
I learned something new there. That's awesome.

Judi Hays:
One more tip: if you want to copy a post and send it to somebody, LinkedIn has started doing more in-depth analytics, and they use UTM tracking. You don't want to mess up their tracking. So what I do is delete everything after the question mark in the link, so it's just the post. Otherwise, it screws up the tracking.

Phyllis Khare:
That's one of those little tricks the old-time geeks like to do on everything. Before we go on with the interview questions, here's a question from the community: someone didn't realize that Follow comes from being in Creator Mode. Is this bad? What does it mean?

Judi Hays:
No, it just means there's a default. I get a lot of connection requests with no message from people who follow me. Follow just means you follow them, and you'll potentially see what they're doing in your feed. There's also a little notification bell on a profile, so if you really want to keep tabs on somebody, you hit the bell. But if you're trying to build your network, you want the default to be Connect. Most people don't realize that when you're looking at someone's full profile, if you don't see the Connect button, you have to click on "More." On mobile, which is so annoying, the default is a generic connection request, and you have to choose the personalized message. I think personalized should be the default. I have no more patience for generic invites. To be a good citizen, I respond and say, thanks so much, I'm glad you found my profile, how can I be helpful to you? If people are using automation, which a lot of times they are, you never hear from them again, or they go right into selling you something. That's why it's much better, when you're trying to connect with somebody, to personalize it.

If you don't have over 2,500 connections, which is a good number, don't go into Creator Mode yet. Now, if you want to publish a newsletter, you have to be in Creator Mode to do that. I'm tracking that, and I'll be publishing mine later this week. It's probably about 40-some percent of people who have launched newsletters and never followed through on them. So don't start something unless you have a strategy and a plan to execute it.

Phyllis Khare:
Here's another question, from someone building their personal profile who doesn't have a company. I don't think I need a company page, right?

Judi Hays:
First of all, if people are going to spend money with you, you have to have an active employer, otherwise you look unemployed. And if you don't have a company page, you get the gray avatar, and people wonder, is this person even real? It takes less than five minutes to create a company page. You can use Canva to create a little icon. I've worked with career changers who were in between jobs and didn't want to sit there with their previous employer, so to keep their integrity and authenticity, we created a company page with an icon and said they were a consultant. I think it validates you. There's no reason not to. It's free, you get more visibility on Google because LinkedIn has high priority, and you look less crazy.

On some other platforms, you can have all these aliases and personas, and you don't know who the heck the person is. LinkedIn is moving away from that. They just announced new verification features, which I was able to get into my article right before we published it. They're going to crack down on fake profiles, so when you're on LinkedIn, you're dealing with a real person who is a verified human. So a company page? Why not?

Phyllis Khare:
That's a great question. Now I want to go into the Engage part of the equation, where a lot of the most important things are created or produced. I want to talk about what really moves the needle. Back in the day, certain types of posts made an impact on LinkedIn, and now different things do. You have some super cool, specific ways to do that in terms of content. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Judi Hays:
I think the Engage part comes down to something at the core of people's nature: they want to help other people. What better way to help someone than to make an introduction? For example, Phyllis, you just mentioned you're doing something with your clothing line, and I know somebody who's going to open a retail outlet, so let me get the two of you talking. Number one is: how can I help you? Be a giver on this platform. There are a lot of takers on LinkedIn, and I don't follow them and have nothing to do with them. I like the givers, because I think people want to help one another. Provide helpful resources. Share content that isn't shocking clickbait but is thought-provoking, so people get curious and say, oh, I didn't know that, tell me more. Ask a question. Tell a story like, a client asked me this question, so here's the answer, or here's what I did. People love those kinds of stories. Pay it forward.

Another LinkedIn strategist and trainer talked about the term "co-opetition." A lot of people are very protective and say, I'm not going to connect with you because you're going to steal my network. It's not your network. It's a public profile. Helping one another is amazing, and she publishes a list of LinkedIn rock stars every year, showing what their growth has been. They're celebrating other people who do the same work. It's about abundance as opposed to lack. That's another way to expand and engage your network, because people generally refer to you if you're a helpful person. If you're always talking about yourself, it's like going to an event where somebody goes on and on about all their stuff and you wonder how to get out of there.

Phyllis Khare:
Sometimes you do have to toot your own horn, and there's a way to do that. One strategy is to post it on your company page first and then share it back to your audience, adding something very personal about the experience. When you first got connected to Forbes and started doing work with them, I remember seeing your posts about that, and I wanted to celebrate it so much. Sometimes you do have to post something that other people can celebrate with you. Can you talk about how the Forbes opportunity came about? I think it would be informative for people.

Judi Hays:
This is for other social media managers, too. I was looking for a way to invest back in my business, and I looked at Fast Company, Inc., and a couple of others. They have these councils. I asked myself which one made the most sense, and because we're here in New York City, I thought it would be great to gather in person. So I applied to the Forbes Business Council, they vetted me, and I got accepted. You do have to pay, like everything else, and quite a bit. But it has proved to be a really beautiful network. I've made really good connections, I've gotten some business from it, and I've been able to publish. You can publish once a month, and so far this year I've published four times. This will be my third or fourth year in it. It's an investment in my business, so I would only apply if you're committed to publishing and participating. I'll be talking with them about a new initiative, and I'll announce it in a couple of weeks once we solidify it. It'll be about LinkedIn. But yes, you have to invest in your business.

One thing I want to add about bragging about yourself: one way to build credibility is through your Recommendations section. My habit is that when I've worked with a client, or someone gives me an acknowledgment or says they like something, I ask, would you mind if we put this in my LinkedIn recommendations? Sometimes I copy and paste what they said, and they say, sure, no problem.

Here's a story. I wanted to apply to be a speaker at INBOUND, HubSpot's conference. It was about LinkedIn, but this was a couple of years earlier, when people still weren't in love with LinkedIn, and I didn't know anybody there. So I reached out to Dan, someone I had met at a HubSpot user group, who was employee number nine at HubSpot. I knew him from Austin. I said, we haven't worked together, but you see me on the platform and you see how I show up, and I was wondering if you would mind writing a couple of words about your observation. He said absolutely, and he put a wonderful testimonial on my profile. I used that when I applied to INBOUND. I didn't get accepted, and that's okay, but I got a recommendation from Dan.

That also leads to another point. I lived in Austin, Texas, for a long time, and my network there was very connected because I worked for the Chamber of Commerce in Austin, so I had a lot of Austin-based businesses. When I moved to New York, did I disconnect from those people? No. To my surprise, several of them have moved to New York City, or Brooklyn. When you connect with people, you can unfollow, but don't disconnect unless there's a really good reason. Just keep the connection, because everything you do is tied to your first, second, and third degree. I may not want to stay connected to you, Phyllis, but you're connected to Andrea, and I want to stay connected to Andrea. If I disconnect from you, she might no longer be connected to me.

Phyllis Khare:
That's interesting. For the newbies in the audience, can you explain the first, second, and third level of connections? When people go on LinkedIn, they wonder what that means.

Judi Hays:
A first-degree connection means we're directly connected. You and I are in the same network, and I have visibility into some aspects of your profile. A second-degree connection is someone you're connected to, maybe in Pulse Academy, whom I'm not connected to yet. That person is my second-degree connection. They might be connected to somebody outside both of our worlds, and that's a third-degree connection. You can also have proximity through groups.

The value of that ties into another statistic, from working with clients: the average acceptance rate for a connection invitation is about 30 percent. I use that as a benchmark with all my clients. That means out of every hundred invites you send, 30 will accept. It's not because they don't like you. They may not be logging into their account, or they're just not in love with LinkedIn like you are. Some industries differ. In the financial industry, like CPAs, I have found the rate can be around 19 percent, though it's getting better. In the legal industry and professional services, it could be upwards of 40 or 50 percent. The more you personalize the invite to that person, the higher the chance of acceptance. If I'm attending an event, I make sure I connect with every single speaker, and I tell them I'm looking forward to hearing them. If I've just listened to a webinar, I'll reach out to the speaker and say, I loved your talk, here's what I got out of it, and it would be great to connect.

Phyllis Khare:
If you're going to an event and you want to connect with every speaker, the way I would do it is get their name and search for them on LinkedIn. Then I notice whether I'm already connected to them, or whether they're a second connection and we have people in common. I look at who we have in common. If those people are in my industry and it feels like a really good match, I reach out. But if we share connections with a lot of strange people who have nothing to do with my industry, I stop and think about whether it's a good connection. That's the value of seeing the second and third levels: you can see what connections you already have with somebody, and that informs your very personal invitation about why it would be great to connect.

Judi Hays:
Right. Think about the different types of experiences at an event. You've got someone dealing out their business cards like a blackjack dealer, and you think, oh my gosh, stop it. Then you've got someone who's super personal, and it's weird. And then you've got someone who says, I think I can offer something here, and I'd love to introduce you to some people in my network. That's the one you want to embrace. As you reach out to people, one thing I'll tell everybody: it is very tempting to use automation tools. There are a lot of them out there. That's a fast pathway to getting your account suspended, and it has happened. People have pleaded with me, how do I get reinstated? Not my clients, but people who took the shortcut because they wanted to build a network fast. Don't do it. You cannot automate on LinkedIn. You can use social media posting tools, and that's not automation. But using a tool that sends out invitations, or what we call pitch slapping, is a mistake.

Judi Hays:
Here's the other thing. When I want to build credibility and send you a link to an article I wrote, the first thing I do is ask, are you interested in seeing this? I wrote an article on such-and-such, and I thought you might find it insightful. Would you like to see it? That's asking permission. I get messages all the time with long paragraphs, links, and Calendly invitations to set up a meeting, and I think, whoa, whoa, that's too much too soon. Someone once wanted to hop on a call, and it wasn't even my target audience, and it came through InMail, so it wasn't even a first-degree connection. I said, that's fine, but my time is valuable, and here's what I charge for those calls, and here's how you schedule it.

Phyllis Khare:
Good for you. I think that's awesome. Everybody write that one down.

Phyllis Khare:
We're getting close to the end of our interview time, so this is the time to put in your last questions for Judi about anything to do with LinkedIn, building relationships, and strategies. This whole month at Social Media Pulse is all about LinkedIn, and the Academy has a whole section of LinkedIn training that goes from 101 all the way to LinkedIn advertising.

Judi Hays:
Phyllis, the school, which was the earlier iteration of the Academy, was my foundation. I would say to anybody who wants to take social media seriously as a business, the Pulse Academy is really worthwhile, and I know the labor you put into the lessons.

Phyllis Khare:
Thank you so much. Let me ask Judi a couple of last questions. Do you have any final thoughts for agency owners who are actively looking for clients and would be pitching LinkedIn, or actions to take on LinkedIn, to their potential clients?

Judi Hays:
If they're working with clients who sell a high-trust, high-touch service, and they think those businesses are on LinkedIn, remember that people do business with people. Building a presence on LinkedIn adds value because of LinkedIn's visibility and credibility, and it's also a good way to do employee advocacy. The clients I work with have teams of employees, and it helps them become more comfortable on the platform, which attracts their ideal clients. I think LinkedIn should definitely be in the toolbox of social media. But certain clients might find that Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, or whatever are better platforms for them. You just have to know who you're trying to reach, and if it's another business, it's going to be LinkedIn.

Phyllis Khare:
If your audience is really not on LinkedIn, then yes, you can have a presence there, but if you're tracking ROI or conversions from a social platform, and you're B2C, human to human, you may find higher ROI on other platforms. If it's business to business, you have no better place than LinkedIn.

Judi Hays:
Here's an example. Someone asked me about LinkedIn who provides services for elder care, for the sandwich generation, the person who's caring for a child and an elder. She asked, will I find them on LinkedIn? I said, most likely they're in some kind of corporate position, so if you look at seniority and years of experience, you may be able to find them that way, and you may be able to provide resources. Do not go to LinkedIn to try to sell people. Don't waste your time, because nobody wants to be sold. People love to buy, but nobody wants to be sold. If you go on LinkedIn just to do that, you're not going to have success. It's like throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. It's like cold calling, and cold calling never brings valuable leads. You want to build relationships, and the goal on LinkedIn should be to take the relationship offline, into a conversation like this one, or a meeting in person, some sort of real-life experience, because that's where the magic happens.

Phyllis Khare:
That was beautiful. Thank you so much for this, Judi. You are obviously a master in this field, and I appreciate all the time and effort you've put into LinkedIn through the years. The book is wonderful, and I hope it provides a lot of leverage for you as you build your expertise and notoriety online, because you deserve it. One last question, from a viewer: can you send messages on LinkedIn without an upgraded version?

Judi Hays:
You can do a lot on LinkedIn with a free version. There's something called InMail, and when you have a Premium account or Sales Navigator, which is what I have, you get InMail credits. LinkedIn is doing something with its inbox, like Outlook, where it's focused and other. When you're trying to send a message, you have to click "More" on someone's profile to see if you're eligible, and that has to do with your proximity: second degree, third degree. You can pay for InMail messages, but I've rarely received InMail messages that weren't trying to sell me something. So the best thing you can do, if you really want to connect with somebody, is comment on their content if they're engaged, or send them a compelling reason why you want to connect. Then, if you have something you want to share with them, ask them if they're interested. If you just throw all this stuff at people, it's a turn-off, they're going to ghost you, and they may even disconnect from you. It has to be about value. People don't have time. In my book, I mention that attention span is something like seven seconds now. When I create content online, I break up paragraphs and make it mobile-friendly, because people just scan. Nobody has time to read stuff. Use the video message on your mobile. It's fabulous.

Phyllis Khare:
So, in case you're looking for a process here: go to their profile, click the three dots, and see how you're connected to them. Maybe you connect that way and put in a personal reason in the invitation. Otherwise, if they have Creator Mode on, you can follow them, go to their posts, and start commenting, understanding the value they bring into the world and adding your own. From there, you can say, I have something special I'd like to send you, is that okay? Ask permission. It takes time. Most people are looking to cut to the chase, but there is no shortcut to building real relationships.

Judi Hays:
There really isn't.

Phyllis Khare:
It was so nice to catch up with you today, Judi. We need to do this more often, and thank you very much for adding to our LinkedIn month at Social Media Pulse Community. If you want to connect with me, just make sure you personalize the invitation, and I'll be happy to connect with anyone who mentions this session.

Judi Hays:
That's awesome. Thank you very much, my friend. I really appreciate it.

Phyllis Khare:
All the links will go in the comments. Have a great rest of your day, and thank you very, very much.