How To Become a LinkedIn Powerhouse

Judi Hays (00:00)

Hi Steve. I am honored to be here. Thank you for having me as a guest.

Steve Gordon (02:02)

Yeah, I'm happy to do so. This is a big topic. We hear from people all the time who want to crack the code on LinkedIn, and they often think it's a matter of getting the perfect message script or finding the right automation tool. What I like about what we're going to talk about today is that you have a very different approach.

So, before we dive into all of that, give everybody a little bit of background so they have context for how you got to this stage of your career.

Judi Hays (02:35)

I look at my career journey as a mind map. If you've ever seen a mind map that goes in all these different directions, I have been on all sides of the business world. Everything from big corporations to ad agencies, to nonprofits, to running my own business, which is where I am today.

I think it is having that different perspective that has really helped me understand. I tend to walk in the prospect's shoes, my client's shoes, or the end user's shoes so I can really understand how this is being perceived and how it's coming across. I think that has served me well.

Steve Gordon (03:12)

Yeah, and I think it really shows in your approach. So, how did you get into doing LinkedIn and helping people with that?

Judi Hays (03:20)

It's interesting because I'm a marketing generalist. If you asked me, "What do you do?" I'm in the marketing business.

I read the book Riches in Niches a while back written by Susan Friedmann and it was about niching down. There's a fear when you niche down that you're going to cut yourself off from other opportunities. Now, the flip side of that is when you niche down, you become the specialist and the expert.

So, being a marketer, I got into online marketing and digital marketing, and then from there social media. From there, I realized that I really love the LinkedIn platform. It's something that I've had a chance to really dive into it and it fascinates me because it's very dynamic. So now I'm a LinkedIn authority. When people have questions, they come to me for the answers, and I'm always seeking the answers. I just love working on the LinkedIn platform.

Now, it doesn't preclude me from working in other aspects of marketing. When I'm working with my clients, I am providing them all kinds of marketing expertise depending upon the solution for their problem. But LinkedIn is what I call the gateway drug, come into LinkedIn, you get hooked, and then everything blossoms from there.

Steve Gordon (04:40)

That's great, yeah. LinkedIn, as I've looked at it over the years, is a platform that has so much potential if you approach it the right way. It's those last few words that are the real kicker: if you approach it the right way. So maybe let's start with a high-level view. You have a different approach to LinkedIn than a lot of what is out there, so give us a little bit of that high-level view of how you think about LinkedIn and how you begin to explain it to someone.

Judi Hays (05:17)

Yeah, somehow my life always revolves around food, so I'll give you my food analogy. I think of LinkedIn as a virtual event.

So LinkedIn is the event, and the space in which it's taking place is the platform. The way that you, the host, show up, that's how you dress. You're going to be in your professional attire, assuming you're at a professional event, not your gardening clothes. So that would be your profile. The guests attending this highly curated event, that's your network. It could be your first-degree and second-degree connections. Then, what you're serving, the food and the wine, that's your content and your engagement.

You want to make sure that all of those areas are relevant and syncing. Let's say you've got a bunch of vegans in the audience and you're serving roast beef, that is a disconnect. Or perhaps the room is not conducive to networking. When you think of it like that, you realize LinkedIn is an all-inclusive platform. It has evolved from a job search site in the early days, to a lead generation machine up until recently, to now a creator platform. It's a great place to establish, create, and promote your professional brand. It really is bar none.

Steve Gordon (06:44)

Talk a little bit about that because I think for a lot of people it's hard to understand that evolution. When I got on LinkedIn, this is going back 12 or 14 years. I don't remember exactly when it started, but it was before I started this business, it was that place to search for jobs. There were some people who were connecting professionally there, and I had some success with that early on. Then it evolved, and as you said, into a lead generation platform. It was that for really the last four or five years, or maybe more.

Steve Gordon (07:19)

Yeah. But now it's evolved again, and I think for a lot of people who listen to this, that's going to be a little bit of a surprise because they're still thinking it's a lead gen platform.

Judi Hays (07:28)

Yeah, and that's where people make mistakes. I don't know about you, but as a CEO, you're probably inundated with all kinds of spam pitching, call it "pitch slapping," coming into your inbox, connecting and immediately going into the sale.

When we talk about it being a creator platform now, or a content creator platform, think of influencers. Think of people out there who have created content that attracts people, allowing them to lead a room and lead an audience. It's like being the keynote speaker, so you are the keynote speaker of your profile.

Ideally, your content is relevant to the audience that is participating, and that's where it's important. There's clickbait content out there, and there's stuff seeping into the platform now that gets a lot of views, like some heartfelt story. That's okay, but ultimately, if you can provide insights and educate your audience, whoever that target audience is, that's the key.

It starts with asking, "Who is my audience?" I think a lot of people struggle with that because they say, "Well, I work with all businesses." Okay, so let's get a little more specific. "I work with professional service businesses." What kind of professional service? "I work with high-dollar, high-trust clients," similar to the clients that you've talked about. Okay, so we get more specific.

Now there are problems and challenges that the audience has. If I can educate them, as the LinkedIn presence there, to be a better buyer of a service, then I'm building trust and credibility. I'm using content and engagement to establish that trust and build that credibility so when their problem becomes such that they need relief, guess who they're going to think of. They will think of the person who has been showing up in the feed, offering insights and providing great content without asking for anything in return.

That's how I came to meet you, Steve, believe it or not. You were one of the trendsetters out there providing really great expertise. I wound up buying your books, and that's how we got to know each other. It was really about building that relationship.

Most people are looking for a quick fix. They want to get in, use an automation tool, and guess what, they either burn their reputation or they get shut down and suspended. I see it happen all the time. So I will tell you this: LinkedIn is not a quick fix. It is robust, and it is a long game.

It's just like your whole professional career. There are people with whom I have spent years developing a relationship. It's not that LinkedIn is going to take years, but go in thinking, "I'm going to pace this out so I really build a muscle, like in any new routine," as opposed to going all in, doing all this stuff, and then saying, "LinkedIn doesn't work." Well, maybe your approach is not working.

It's probably more than what you wanted to know, but the mistakes I see people make are expecting way too much, missing the mark, not knowing who their target is, and going for the kill right away. All that stuff damages a brand.

Steve Gordon (10:45)

I get those in my message inbox all day, every day. In fact, there was a point over the last six to nine months where I went cold turkey on LinkedIn for a while. I didn't log in because it was getting to the point where I was receiving four or five messages a day that were just garbage.

As I reflected on that, I thought, "There is actually a real opportunity here to use social media for what it really is." So many people have looked at social media on the organic side with an advertising mindset. On the advertising side, it works like virtually any other media: you buy an ad, target it to a particular group, and they respond to the ad or they don't. You could take the same approach on TV, radio, or wherever, obviously the medium is different, so the way you're presenting the ad is different, but it's the same thinking.

But on social media, what has happened organically is that people have taken that advertising mindset to their organic posts and their outreach messages. A lot of people are using LinkedIn as the new cold calling.

Judi Hays (12:03)

Oh, big time, big time.

Steve Gordon (12:05)

They are dialing for dollars, and that's where the automation comes in because you can automate it, just like the telemarketers did. But I think there's a big opportunity to do cold outreach, and by cold outreach, I mean reaching out to someone you don't know yet to make a new friend. If you do it from that human perspective, as you teach in your book, you actually really stand out. There's a big opportunity right now to take that more human approach and stand out.

So, I'd love for you to walk us through how you think about that. That was a big part of what you talk about in the book.

Judi Hays (12:43)

Yeah, one of my mentors, Brynn Tillman, coined the phrase: "Slow down the outreach to speed up the outcome." I'll say that again: slow down your outreach to speed up your outcome.

What does that mean? That means taking the time to find something about that person, using LinkedIn's robust Rolodex to find people based on whatever your criteria is. Once you find these people, if you just have a generic outreach, you're not going to have a great conversion.

But if you actually look at somebody's profile and see what they're sharing, assuming they're active and there's some thread there, maybe they went to the same school, live in the same town, or something similar. Just find something. Then, build on that in a real, genuine way, as if you were at an event.

Remember the analogy from before: if you meet someone in real life, how would you act? That's where I think people miss the point because they think, "Oh, this is an online platform, I can have this different persona." No, you have to be authentic, everything down to your profile picture.

I've worked with people where I see them on a Zoom call and think, "Hmm, that's interesting. Your profile picture looks nothing like you." Now there's a disconnect because it feels like something is not right. So it starts with that. How authentic are you?

Take an interest. Take an interest and ask questions. A good salesperson is someone who listens, does the research, asks those questions, and gets the prospect to talk. The end game on LinkedIn is to get people off the platform and into a conversation.

From there, the real challenge is that it takes about eight to 12 touches before someone is actually willing to give you the time of day, or maybe even do business with you. So, how do you do those touches? On LinkedIn, it could be something as simple as a profile view, engaging on a piece of content, or providing something of value.

I'm a big believer in asking permission. I don't like to receive unsolicited things in my inbox full of links. That is just spam. Whereas if somebody said to me, "Hey, I came across this article and thought of you. Would you like me to send it over?" I would think, "Oh yeah, I'm interested in that." Or, "No thanks." But because you asked me, you've built credibility. As you would in real life, you want to build that rapport, find the common thread, and let the conversation proceed.

Steve Gordon (15:33)

What I love about that nugget you just shared, which would be easy for people to skip over, is that it's a little magic trick: ask before you send. A lot of people will just drop a message saying, "Hey, here's an article," "Here's a link to my latest webinar," or "Here's a link to this video." One of the things we coach our authors to do is exactly that: "I just finished writing a new book on such and such a topic. I thought it might be of interest to you. Would you like me to send you an early copy?" You can send a PDF or whatever, but the act of asking the question makes it their idea.

Steve Gordon (16:16)

Yeah. So instead of it being a burden on them where their walls instantly go up because it was your idea, if you ask them and they say, "Yes, I would," now it's their idea.

Judi Hays (16:31)

Yeah, and a couple of other things happen behind the scenes on LinkedIn. We've all heard of algorithms, and the platform is heavily driven by one. Recent changes mean certain types of content are getting more preference and others less.

Understanding the algorithm is key. When you're messaging somebody and there is a back-and-forth, you're creating what is called a point of relevance. When there's that point of relevance, if you're also actively sharing content, have you ever noticed who shows up in your feed? Certain people show up because LinkedIn's algorithm thinks, "Okay, there's a relevance between these people. They've been talking, and this one's been commenting on that one's posts, so let me share this in the feed."

If you take the time to tweak your settings, which is what I help my clients do to fine-tune their feed, you'll start to see content you really want to engage with, from the people you want to engage with.

But that trust and credibility, that's where so many people forget that you have not established trust with me yet. Why would I want to talk with you about my finances or something like that? I don't know who you are. So, yeah, it is a very interesting platform.

Here's the good news about LinkedIn, and what's going to keep me in business for a long time: it's constantly changing. There are all these new features that have come out recently, particularly on the Sales Navigator platform, which is what I specialize in. There are so many different things you can do there: company pages, specific lists, account tracking, and customized searches. They've just updated their industry lists, so it goes on and on.

Really understanding how to use those tools allows you to prospect much more accurately. But at the end of the day, if you don't have some kind of great insight to offer, then you're just pitch slapping and selling. Nobody wants to be sold, but people love to buy. Absolutely, they love to buy, and they love to inform themselves. When you look at what the modern buyer does, they are using the internet to research.

The thing about LinkedIn, and why it is so important, is that in the Moz ranking of website credibility ranks LinkedIn’s Domain Authority at 99 out of 100. If you Google your name, guess what's going to come up. Pretty much your LinkedIn profile is going to be in the first three results. If you have a company page, that's going to show too, along with anything else on the internet. That's why LinkedIn is important. People are checking you out and doing due diligence before they want to do business with you. You might as well have a good profile and a good presence.

Steve Gordon (19:23)

And so that brings me back to your framework for helping people. You have three parts, and I want to touch on each of them because they're each important, particularly with where the platform is going. You start with Elevate, which is about elevating the profile. I'm sure you've seen some less-than-optimized profiles.

Judi Hays (19:49)

Profiles from the '70s, yeah.

Steve Gordon (19:55)

If we could give somebody listening the top two or three things they need to do immediately to elevate their profile, what is the 80/20 of what they should look at?

Judi Hays (20:10)

Your profile picture is probably the most important thing on LinkedIn because it goes everywhere. Your little picture follows you everywhere, so just make sure you have a good, current picture of yourself. Get someone to take a nice picture of you where you're smiling and looking into the camera, without other distracting things hanging out in the background.

The second thing is to use that billboard, use that header image behind you because that draws attention. That is what I call a "thumb stopper" when somebody is scrolling. Think of your profile as breadcrumbs. People are going to look at your picture, click on it, and when they click, they'll see your header.

Next, think of your headline. As opposed to just using the default of your job title and where you work, think of how you can describe yourself in a way that informs whoever is looking at your profile. Help them learn a little bit more about how you are different from somebody else who does what you do. There's a lot of different methodology around that.

It really depends on who your audience is and what your objective is, but pay attention to those three things. From there, everything else falls into place. Mainly, users are going to look at your headshot, that's it. Smile, look good, and that's how you elevate your presence. If you fully optimize your profile, you're more likely to show up in relevant searches and convey a better sense of a professional brand. It's all about branding.

Steve Gordon (21:47)

It hurts me sometimes to see some of the businesses that come and seek our help. I go and look at the owner on LinkedIn, and they have no picture.

Judi Hays (22:01)

Yeah, settings too. A lot of times people look at their settings and they may have it defaulted to some weird option. But yeah, the profile is probably the most misunderstood aspect of a LinkedIn presence. Also, the expectation is often, "Oh, now I have a great profile, how come everyone's not flocking to me?"

That's where we get into the Expand part.

Steve Gordon (22:24)

So let's talk about that. When you talk about Expand, what are you really pointing people towards? What are you trying to get them to do?

Judi Hays (22:33)

It's about visibility. You are elevating your professional brand and becoming presentable, and then you're expanding that visibility on the network. It's how you're seen and how you're perceived. The larger your network, the greater the likelihood of being seen.

Several of my clients, one just told me yesterday, have noticed since we've been working together that they're getting better-quality engagement, better-quality inbound connections, and better-quality content in their feed.

When you expand, you want to be strategic. You don't want to just connect with everyone. If you have a small network, start connecting to clients and people you've done business with, as opposed to just random connections, because what you see is a direct result of who you hang out with. It's like your friends, right?

So you want to expand strategically. By expanding, commenting, participating in the platform, and sharing content, you expand that visibility. There is a statistic that about 10% of your followers will be the first to see your content. So if you only have 500 followers, 50 people are going to see what you have. It's not about quantity; it's about quality. If I only have 50 people seeing it, but those people are highly engaged and are exactly who I want to see it, that's wonderful. That is opposed to having 100,000 irrelevant profiles following you and engaging with your content, which doesn't help.

Steve Gordon (24:20)

Yeah, and I think that's great advice. That's one of the things that I still struggle with myself. I've been on the platform long enough that the tactics have evolved. There was a time when I was accepting pretty much every connection request, so I've got all kinds of people in there. Most of them I don't know, but they are my 6,000 closest friends.

Judi Hays (24:47)

An interesting thing that you bring up, and this is one of the things I do first when working with clients, is downloading their database to take a look. We sort this out by company first, and then by title. If you tell me your ideal audience is a VP of Marketing or a CMO, let's look at all the companies you're connected to. There is at least a 20% job change every year, maybe even more now.

So, who are you connected to that you haven't engaged with in a while, or ever, whom you can reach out to? That leads into the next part of the book, which is the Engage part. Let's engage with these people who are already in the network.

I recommend not disconnecting from people unless they are a jerk. If somebody is doing stuff they shouldn't be doing, then sure, disconnect. But for the most part, you can just unfollow somebody. You want to leverage the second-degree network, which is really important, your connections, my connections, and our second-degree connections.

If you start to engage with your existing network, just chunk it down. Say, "Hey, I'm going to look at this database, find five people I've never engaged with, and come up with something genuine. I'll look at their profile, see what they've been doing, make a comment about something, and see if I can start a conversation." That's one way to engage.

The next thing about engaging is, again, thinking about what you would do if you went to this LinkedIn event. Do you sit in the corner with a bag over your head? Do you go and talk to people? Do you start dealing out your business cards? How do you want to engage with people? Think of it as starting conversations.

People learn from comments. When you see content on LinkedIn, instead of just leaving a two-word comment, try to say something that is at least five words. People learn from that. You are able to demonstrate your thought leadership and your subject matter expertise through comments. As you build up that muscle, you may start posting, sharing, or even launching a LinkedIn newsletter, which is one of the latest features that I absolutely love.

Finally, once you have a one-on-one engagement, that's when you take it offline to nurture the relationship. Ultimately, see how you can be a giver on LinkedIn. Don't be a taker; if you are a giver, you will receive.

I'm always looking for how I can make a warm introduction. I send you introductions and introduce you to all different kinds of people. If I think people in my network can benefit from knowing one another, I'm going to do that. That, again, is engagement. When you do Elevate, Expand, and Engage, you have to do all three. If you're only doing a part of it, you're going to be disappointed and frustrated.

Steve Gordon (27:46)

Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I've discovered the value of comments lately. I've identified a few larger accounts that post on a daily basis where the people who follow them are the exact type of people we're looking for.

Judi Hays (28:04)

Exactly.

Steve Gordon (28:04)

By being there and commenting, particularly being one of the first to comment on their posts, that actually gives you a lot of visibility, and I've made connections with people that way. One of our recent podcast guests came from that, and he has since referred people to us. If I hadn't put myself out there like that, and it didn't take long, just a couple of minutes to chime in in a thoughtful way where I wrote three or four sentences tops, it wouldn't have happened.

Judi Hays (28:41)

That is powerful. That is the fertilizer right there; that has the seeds and the growth. You hit it spot on.

There are a lot of different ways that you can tackle LinkedIn, and what I recommend to people is to start gradually and have a strategy. Ask yourself, "Why am I on this platform?" Am I here to build a brand because I want to be invited to sit on a board, or because I want to be a keynote speaker? Am I here to build my business because I want to get clients? What is your purpose on LinkedIn?

Start with that strategy, and then get clarity on who your ideal audience is so you can break that down. Focus and pick one. I always tell people to pick one, you can always change it later, but pick one and really dive into that.

Then, what kind of content, what kind of food, are you going to serve them? I see people who have large networks posting content feverishly, but there's no engagement. We need to step back and ask those questions: What is your strategy? Who is your audience, and what's important to them? When it's important and relevant to them, they're all ears, and they are commenting, sharing, and engaging. If it's not, you miss the mark, and you're just standing in the corner talking to yourself at that event. So, I'm glad to hear it's been working for you. I think that's a real testament.

Steve Gordon (30:11)

Yeah, absolutely. So you've got the three phases we talked about: the profile, expanding the network strategically, and then the engagement. There are so many layers to how to engage, and to me, that is the most intimidating part of the whole thing because you can create a straight post, or write an article published on LinkedIn, right? They still have the article feature.

They now have a newsletter feature, and they have LinkedIn Lives for live-stream video. It makes me tired just thinking about it.

Judi Hays (30:52)

That's where strategy comes in. Without a strategy, it's like going for a drive and saying, "Well, where are we going?" "I don't know." If you don't have that GPS set or a map, then you're just going to be driving around in circles without getting anywhere. So, the strategy is really about what you want to get out of this.

It's a nimble, flexible platform. My two favorite features are edit and delete, really. By the way, my logo has the three dots in it because it is Judi with an 'i' and also represents the three dots. Those three dots are always the secret to great content. When you see something in your feed you don't like, click on the three dots and you'll see options to refine your feed.

One of the common hurdles you mentioned is fear, fear of failure, fear of saying the wrong thing, or fear of being perceived differently. Once you realize that you are dealing with a human on the other end, person-to-person, it changes things. You are a real person. Treat people with respect and be kind. If you make a mistake, you can go back and edit or delete.

Usually, when I get those crazy, horrible inbound messages, if it's not a bot, and I know how to suss out a fake profile pretty well, I will message them back and say, "What was it about my profile that attracted you? How can I be of help to you?" If people are totally automating, I'll never hear from them again because they realize it's a real person. But some people might write back and say, "Well, I heard you on so-and-so's podcast," which is great. Then we start a conversation, one thing leads to another, and that's when it becomes real.

If you're afraid, remember that when I message people, I try to do it like a short text. I don't format heavily, and while I try not to have typos, I do it as if I'm texting because that is more authentic. It's not perfectly staged with strict line breaks and commas. That other stuff looks scripted. Realize that you are a human dealing with another human. We call it H-to-H: Human-to-Human style, rather than just B-to-B.

When you realize that people do business with other humans and build relationships, you understand that relationships are the lifeblood of your business. Without your network and relationships, what is it? Not much.

Remember the analogy of LinkedIn being this major event space. How would you perform in real life? Whatever you would do there, do that on the platform and you'll see a whole different result. But make sure you start with a strategy.

Steve Gordon (33:50)

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Well, Judy, this is awesome. We could go in so many directions from here, probably for hours, but I'm going to recommend that everybody get your book, Elevate, Expand, Engage. It's awesome. I'm really grateful to have been able to play a small role in helping you bring it about. It's really good. I got to go deep into it because of the work we did, so I got a bit of a head start on everybody.

Where's the best place for them to find the book?

Judi Hays (33:50)

If you go to my website, which is judihays.com, you can either download a free chapter or purchase the book and reach out to me. Let me know what you think. I'm just really excited. We are actually introducing an index in the next couple of weeks, so the book will be even better.

I will put in a shameless plug for you, Steve. I have to say that the process of working with you was incredible. I talk with a lot of people who have books in mind, "Oh, I want to do a book, I'm working on a book," but very few actually get it done.

The decision I made in my business to work with your company to produce this book and get it published was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Your process is methodical, you have a lot of patience, your team is top-notch, and I couldn't be prouder to have my name on the end result.

The whole purpose of why I did this book is to help people overcome any fear they have of using LinkedIn. But it's not just about LinkedIn; it's really about building relationships in business. That's the gist of it, and we just use LinkedIn as the gateway.

Steve Gordon (33:50)

Thank you for all those kind words, and you're absolutely right. That's one of the things that sets this approach to LinkedIn apart: it is human-first. You explain how to be a good human on LinkedIn as a platform, and connecting those dots is going to be very important for people.

So many people are being fed a hack or a trick that maybe works today for the person who wrote it. What you put in here is a set of timeless principles that are going to work today, work really well tomorrow, and keep working no matter how the platform changes. Maybe the way you push the buttons looks a little different in the future, but the approach is going to be the same because on the other end of the approach is another human being, and human nature doesn't change.

Judi Hays (36:35)

Yeah, at the end of the day, we are dealing with people. I believe that people innately want to help other people, so what better way than to give a kudos to somebody, provide a referral, or give someone something that's going to delight them? Using LinkedIn as the tool to deliver that is pretty cool.

Steve Gordon (37:00)

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for investing some time with me today and for sharing this with everybody. If you're listening to this, judihays.com will be linked in the show notes. Grab the free chapter, buy the book, it is money well spent. If you want to go even deeper with LinkedIn, engage with Judi and she'll help you. Thanks so much.

Judi Hays (38:11)

Absolutely, thank you, Steve. Have a great day.